>> HASKINS: Coming up on
"Theater Talk"...
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Early
dating years, we would watch
this show and go...
And I would dream about being on
this show one day.
>> HASKINS: Oh, you're so nice!
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Thank you so
much.
>> LOPEZ: Before we even had
cable.
[ Laughter ]
♪♪
♪♪
♪♪
>> ELSA: ♪ Come to knock down
the door ♪
♪ I can't hide this time
like I hid before ♪
>> HASKINS: From New York City,
this is "Theater Talk."
I'm Susan Haskins, and I am
joined by my guest co-host,
Elisabeth Vincentelli of
The New York Times,
The New Yorker, and
"Three on the Aisle,"
the podcast we all adore, and we
are so happy to be joined by
Kristen Anderson-Lopez and
Robert Lopez, who are packing
them in at their musical
"Frozen," now at the
St. James Theatre.
They, of course, wrote the
lyrics and songs for the megahit
movie, and now you've written
how many more songs for this
musical?
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Well, it
depends how you count, but I
think it's 12 to 14,
depending if you count reprises
and new material with old
melody.
>> HASKINS: Elisabeth and I have
been pondering "Frozen," and we
have some questions for you,
Lopezes.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: First, can we
say how excited we are to be
here?
I've been...
We've been watching you...
Early dating years, we would
watch this show and go...
And I would dream about being on
this show one day.
>> HASKINS: Oh, you're so nice!
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Thank you so
much.
>> LOPEZ: Before we even had
cable.
She would have to sit...
She would have to lie down on
her back.
Her feet were somehow the
antenna of the cable.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Yes.
It was not good.
I had to use sort of my leg as a
conductor of the waves
out in Astoria to get our TV to
not be too staticky.
It sounds weird, and it was.
>> HASKINS: Well, I hope you got
a better TV.
[ Laughter ]
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Things have
gotten better.
>> HASKINS: Elisabeth?
>> VINCENTELLI: Well, the movie,
I think, everybody knows, and a
certain song, everybody knows.
But was it pretty obvious very
early on that there would be a
stage version?
And when did they tell you,
"Okay, now you guys have to go
back and just
crank out some more"?
>> LOPEZ: We thought, in our
deepest, fondest hopes, that we
would get to do it for Broadway
because we had a lot more to say
by the time the movie came out.
And we weren't sure, and
I think it was --
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: We used to
joke often...
If something fell
on the floor -- and there were
at least 16 songs during the
development of the "Frozen"
movie that fell on the floor --
and we would turn to each other
and go, "Ah, well, we'll put it
in the Broadway."
>> LOPEZ: That's polite talk for
saying the song is out.
[ Laughter ]
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Yeah.
>> VINCENTELLI: But you still
held on to them?
>> LOPEZ: Sure. Sure.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: And we used
none of it except for eight bars
of a little chant in the
opening number of
the cut songs from the movie.
>> LOPEZ: Yeah. All the new
stuff was written expressly for
the musical.
>> HASKINS: How much was the
movie influenced by what you had
to say?
How much was the story of that
movie, the trajectory of that
movie, and yes, "Let It Go,"
where I wonder so much, how was
that coming from your centers?
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Well, I would
say that every day, we spoke
with Jennifer Lee, Chris Buck,
our music team, and the two of
us on a little TV in Burbank,
every single day for several
hours, I would say, for about a
year.
And that was when, bit by bit by
bit, we would talk about what
Anna wants, who's Anna,
what Elsa wants, who's Elsa?
I think Jennifer Lee and Chris,
I give them both incredible
kudos for when we wrote
"Let It Go," Jennifer Lee was
like, "I love this song.
And now we have to rewrite
everything else in the movie
to make...to earn 'Let It Go.'"
You're not always lucky enough
to have generous
collaborators --
>> HASKINS: Well, but how smart
it was.
Oh, my God.
Could you have imagined what
"Let It Go" would become?
>> LOPEZ: Never in a million
years.
We were still writing for
Elsa the villain at that moment.
We wanted a moment where she
pivoted from the sort of
buttoned-up, straitlaced kid
with a secret
and became what we knew she had
to become, which was the
Snow Queen, and so we thought,
"Oh, there's a place --
that song will stay."
But we tried to put in little
hints of the dark side to which
she'd eventually turn because at
the end of the movie,
she was supposed to come down
the mountain with an army of
mutant snowmen and attack
Arendelle.
>> VINCENTELLI: Oh, my God!
I love this.
>> LOPEZ: We put, you know,
"Let the storm rage on" and all
these --
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: "The cold
never bothered me, anyway,"
slam!
Like, there are traces of
villain in Elsa, which is
interesting because in any
powerful woman...in any
three-dimensional woman, we all
have pieces of ourselves that
can get angry and vengeful, and
that's one of the things that I
think we love about Elsa
and that we wanted to look at
and go a little bit deeper in
Act II with the Broadway --
>> HASKINS: She's misunderstood.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: She's
misunderstood, but she's a
three-dimensional person who
has these powers that she can
use for good or evil.
That's why toddlers and
6-year-olds love Elsa, because
she gives voice not only to
magic, but also she's a good,
wonderful character, who also
says things like "Let the storm
rage on" and slams doors.
>> VINCENTELLI: I was curious
about one of the new songs,
"Monster," which is really her
big "Who am I? What am I doing?"
song.
Did you guys decide, okay, she
needs something at this point to
explain what's going on, to
verbalize it?
How was that decided with like
Jennifer Lee, who wrote the book
also for the show?
>> LOPEZ: We met with Jen and
a few other people,
Tom Schumacher included,
and had a big sort of confab
about how we would lay out this
new musical and what the new
structure would demand --
two acts, and the songs don't
stop near the end, the way they
do in the movie because in the
movie, you have action.
In the movie, we had Hans and
the men come up to the castle.
He fought the big snow monster,
and then he confronted Elsa.
There was a big action scene.
But what we had to do was turn
it into a song -- tell the story
through music and emotion.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: And in the
movie, you get a lot of
information through close-up for
all of Elsa's emotions.
And when we were turning it
into a Broadway musical, we had
to replace close-up with song.
And at this point, if you really
go into Elsa's head and even
back when we were working on the
movie in 2013, when we explored
"What is really going on?"
She knows she's done something
to her sister again.
She knows people are coming for
her.
She knows her own people
are dying in the winter.
And the truth is she would be
having the thought at that
moment, "Do I stop this whole
thing by stopping myself?"
>> VINCENTELLI: Mm-hmm.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: And she'd be
looking at herself and
wondering, "Am I a monster?
Is this shame that I've had my
whole life for who I am
real?"
Like, "Did they know when they
said, 'Conceal it,' did they
know that I could do this much
damage?"
And that's rich
territory for a song.
>> ELSA: ♪ If I'm a monster ♪
♪ Then it's true ♪
♪ There's only one thing
that's left for me to do ♪
♪ But before I fade to ice,
I'll do all that I can
to make things right ♪
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: We ask the
question, and then we see her
push through it and say, "I
don't know how I'm going to
solve this, but I am going to
solve this."
Her sister solves it.
And that's part of the story of
empathy that we are excited
about telling with this piece,
empathy that sisters can have
for each other.
>> HASKINS: Well, and that you
have the solution with the
sister and not with some
boyfriend for Elsa...
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Yes.
>> HASKINS: ...ever is she
turning to a male to solve her
problems.
>> VINCENTELLI: Or a female --
because I have my theory about
Elsa...
[ Laughter ]
...which I will save for
"Frozen 2."
>> LOPEZ: You know, one of the
cool things about developing the
movie -- and the same with
the Broadway show, too, because
we had Jen Lee as well,
was having two females in the
creative room, in the creative
space, because so often, you
know, and I felt this way
when I was starting out, I
thought, "You know, most writers
are men.
Writers are men."
And when there was a woman
around, there'd usually be one
woman, and she'd be a lone voice
saying, "I kind of think this,"
and everyone would be like,
"Okay, that's great --
that's what she thinks."
But having Kristen and Jen in
the room, when the guys in the
room would say, "Well, we have
Hans, we have Anna, we have
Elsa...maybe Anna and Elsa both
like Hans.
Maybe they fight about him."
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: And then Jen,
then I would go, I'd go, "Nope.
Nope. Nope.
Guys, we've seen that story.
We know that story."
And then Jen being in the room,
she would say, "No.
We're not doing that."
>> HASKINS: Yeah.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: That we...
And the power of two women
in the story room is what will
bring us new stories and new
perspectives.
And it's been amazing watching
Bobby... I sort of tease him.
I'm like, "You're all woke now."
But it's been amazing watching
Bobby's lens widen
from spending time in the story
room with women.
>> VINCENTELLI: You guys have a
real pop sensibility
in your writing, and I was
curious as to who...
Who do you listen to?
Like, what, who do you...
Do you have people that...
>> LOPEZ: You know, one of the
people we started really
listening to around the time of
"Frozen" was Sara Bareilles.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Yeah.
>> LOPEZ: She was seriously on
our playlist back then.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: I was running
in the park playing --
'cause one of my favorite things
to do is to just run in
Prospect Park and listen to
girl singer-songwriters.
So we were listening to
Sara Bareilles.
We were listening
to Aimee Mann.
>> LOPEZ: We were always
listening to Aimee Mann.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: We were
listening to Tori Amos.
Especially for Elsa, we were
trying to...
We knew that she was not going
to be the Disney princess who
was like,
♪ "Oh, the sun is
shining today! ♪
Like, we knew that she was going
to have a rock and roll edge to
her.
And yet you can't go so far
that she's all groove based.
It's interesting with pop songs,
and sometimes why pop writers
can have a hard time bridging
to Broadway is that everything
is about groove, and then you
can't hear the lyrics.
And in Broadway, you can only
hear the lyrics once.
The audience, especially before
the cast album is released,
which usually is two to three
months after the first preview
has started.
And so your show needs to
survive on somebody sitting in
the dark understanding every
objective, every choice that's
made with one listen to the
lyric, and if you're competing
with like a growling guitar
and a drum groove,
it can be very hard.
>> LOPEZ: When things repeat on
Broadway, they have to grow and
intensify and climb, whereas in
pop, repetition is important for
it to kind of...
for things to repeat exactly.
>> HASKINS: And I think, Bobby,
of your hits before "Frozen,"
that you have -- "Avenue Q" and
then the wonderful
"Book of Mormon" -- that you
already were grappling very
successfully with that problem.
>> Huh.
>> HASKINS: You know, that you
had some groove, but you had
memorable lyrics and songs that
we were listening to and
getting, the first time.
Now, before we go, I consulted
my favorite "Frozen" fans,
my nieces Emma Kate and Audrey,
and they had some questions for
you, so I said I would ask them.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Oh, good.
>> HASKINS: They gave me some
good ones.
"Did you think 'Frozen' would
become this popular?"
>> LOPEZ: When we were doing the
show, we just wanted it to be
baseline good.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: You mean the
movie.
>> LOPEZ: The movie, yes.
>> HASKINS: The movie.
>> LOPEZ: We were fighting to
take something that didn't work
and make it basically work,
and --
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: We thought we
were going down.
We thought this was it.
This was the first really big
job we had done together,
and I was like, "Well, that's
the end of this collaboration"
because there were some really
bad screenings, and that's also
part of the process of these
Disney movies, is they take a
long time.
They're so huge, and they
involve so many moving parts
that sometimes you can have the
right ending, but you just get
there the wrong way, and, you
know, things like...
Elsa had spiky blue hair and
froze her sister's heart and
kidnapped her from her own
wedding and tried to kill
the city of Arendelle.
Like, that was one of the
versions.
We're in a similar place in
"Frozen 2" right now, and so
it's good to talk about this and
remember, you know, you've got
certain things that are working
great and other things where
you're like, "We really need to
go deeper."
>> VINCENTELLI: What stage is
"Frozen 2," what kind of --
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Oh, we're
going into our second screening?
>> LOPEZ: Something like that.
>> VINCENTELLI: Oh, wow.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Next...
But you get --
>> LOPEZ: It's all in...
It's just like the
black-and-white drawings phase
right now.
There's no animation yet.
It's still in the birthing.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: And, you
know, we're still sitting around
the table, asking questions like
"What can we use 'Frozen'...
How can we use the 'Frozen'
franchise to make
the world a better place?
And what does the world need to
hear from Anna and Elsa, and
what do we have to contribute to
that?"
We're still asking those giant
questions.
>> HASKINS: And what's the
budget of this production?
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: We don't
know.
Disney doesn't talk about money.
>> LOPEZ: Was that one of your
nieces' questions?
>> VINCENTELLI: Yes, it is.
It's right there.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Emma Kate,
don't worry about money.
>> HASKINS: But I'm going to end
with one of my nieces' wonderful
question.
"How do you like doing
interviews?"
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: I love them!
>> LOPEZ: Yeah, I think I'll do
another one.
>> HASKINS: That's a good
ending.
Now, as we've run out of time,
Elisabeth, what a pleasure to
have you here...
>> VINCENTELLI: Oh, it's a
pleasure to be here.
>> HASKINS: ...with Robert and
Kristen Anderson-Lopez.
Come back
for the next one, please.
>> ANDERSON-LOPEZ: Yes, please.
>> ELSA: ♪ Am I just a monster
in a cage? ♪
>> ENSEMBLE: ♪ End this winter,
bring back summer ♪
♪ Keep your guard up ♪
>> HANS: ♪ No harm comes
to her ♪
>> HASKINS: Here with me is my
utterly delightful co-host,
actor Julie Halston.
We call you an actor now,
Julie Halston.
>> HALSTON: That's right.
It's very grand.
I'm happy to be here.
>> HASKINS: Tony season has just
begun, and the theater community
begins the countdown to the
ceremony on June 10, when the
winners will be announced.
The Tony Awards are managed by
two organizations --
the American Theatre Wing, led
by Heather Hitchens, and
the Broadway League, which is
led by its muscle and president,
Charlotte St. Martin.
Charlotte is the president of
the organization since...
Well, you began there in 2006,
and then you became the
president in what, 2015, right?
>> ST. MARTIN: That's correct.
>> HASKINS: That's right.
Tell us a little bit about the
Broadway League.
>> ST. MARTIN: Well, the
Broadway League is made up of
the people who make Broadway --
the producers, the theater
owners, the general managers,
and then the presenters, who
take these fabulous shows and
present them around our country
in 200 venues and 150 cities.
And then obviously, we have
international presence.
We're not controlling that, but
our members are.
>> HASKINS: So, Charlotte, key
programs of the Broadway League
include Kids' Night on Broadway,
the Jimmys,
Stars in the Alley,
Internet Broadway Database,
broadway.org,
Spotlight on Broadway,
the Commercial Theater
Institute,
the Theatre Development Fund,
and Broadway Bridges, which
we're going to talk about in a
minute, and,
Charlotte St. Martin, how do you
manage all that?
>> ST. MARTIN: We manage it with
a village.
We have an incredible staff, and
I'm so proud of our members
because over 40% of our members
participate in a committee or a
task force.
So, they're the ones that help
us make it happen.
>> HASKINS: So, Julie and I want
to know...
>> HALSTON: Yeah.
>> HASKINS: ...more about what
you do in Tony season.
>> HALSTON: Well, Tony season,
which is...
Obviously, it's almost like a,
you know, the Thoroughbreds
racehorses.
What's the best part of it and
the worst part of it for
the Broadway League?
>> ST. MARTIN: Well, certainly
the best part is you get to
acknowledge the outstanding work
that's been done by so many
people.
>> HALSTON: Right.
>> ST. MARTIN: And there's
something very special about
that.
At any given time, we'll have
over 125 nominees, so you know
these people that give their
life to this industry are being
acknowledged.
The worst part is you know what
went into all of those, and not
everyone can win.
>> HALSTON: Right.
>> ST. MARTIN: So, other than
also in the month of April doing
20 openings and all that goes
with that, which I wouldn't call
punishment, but it is grueling.
>> HALSTON: How does the
Broadway League work with the
production of the actual show?
>> ST. MARTIN: The League, in
conjunction with the Wing and my
partner, Heather, and I,
we work very closely with the
television producers and the
members, and certainly we don't
produce the show.
Those creative people who have
won so many Emmys for the Tonys
do that.
But we certainly talk about
hosts.
We talk about the other things,
the non-"particular" show-driven
activities.
We talk about the awards, the
presenters, so we're involved,
but we don't lead it.
>> HASKINS: And do you have veto
power?
>> ST. MARTIN: On a few things.
We don't tell what we veto.
>> HASKINS: All right.
Well, I watch what you all do,
and I think, "How does she do
it?
How does she keep her stamina up
to do this all?"
>> ST. MARTIN: Well, I grew up
in the hotel business,
which is a 24/7, and it was 24/7
before people even used that
term.
They're 80-hour weeks, so
I obviously built up my stamina
to prepare myself for Broadway.
>> HASKINS: How did you get from
the hotel business into the
Broadway League?
>> ST. MARTIN: Well, in the
hotel business, I was literally
known as Broadway Charlotte.
I was with a major hotel to
begin.
And we held parties for 2,000 to
5,000.
I always hired Broadway
entertainers.
And so, when this position was
being searched, three different
people recommended me, and they
said, "No one loves Broadway
more than Charlotte, and she
puts a lot of it on in her
hotels and for the industry."
So it all happened, and I'm the
luckiest person in the world
that I got to take my avocation
and make it my vocation.
>> HALSTON: What I find
fascinating because I actually
was reading about your love of
the theater, and...but, you
know, a lot of people who get
into these positions either
behind the scenes or even in a
corporate setting,
you know, they go, "Well, I
wanted to be an actress at one
time," or, "I had a dance
class."
That was not your story.
You just happened to love the
theater.
Was this something your parents
inspired in you or you just...
Somehow you saw your first show
and said, "Oh, my gosh, I love
this"?
>> ST. MARTIN: Well, my mother
did love Broadway, and we used
to attend all of the Dallas
Summer Musicals' offerings.
>> HALSTON: Oh!
>> ST. MARTIN: As a young woman.
We would save up to go get to do
that.
And then my first boyfriend
played the king in
"The King and I."
And it was love at first sight
both for him and for the
industry.
And it just stuck with me.
I've loved it forever.
>> HASKINS: One of the important
projects you're doing now at the
Broadway League is
Broadway Bridges.
Can you tell us about that?
>> ST. MARTIN: Yes.
You're going to talk about my
passion now in addition to
Broadway.
The program --
the goal is to have every
high school student in
New York City see a Broadway
show before they graduate.
And it's been a dream of mine
since literally my second year
in the League.
And then we applied for a couple
of grants from
the subdistrict arts council.
We're a finalist, did not get
it, and my partner, Tory Bailey
from the Theatre Development
Fund, looked at me, and she
said, "We cannot let this go."
>> HALSTON: Yeah.
>> ST. MARTIN: "It should be the
inalienable right of every
New Yorker to see a Broadway
show."
And that...I grabbed ahold of
that, we grabbed ahold of that,
put a committee together, and
started the program.
We just finished our first year.
We brought 7,500 students.
By the end of next year, we will
have brought 25,000 students.
So, as we build up, we will
hopefully be taking over 70,000
students to see a Broadway show
in one year.
>> HASKINS: How do you reach out
to these kids?
>> ST. MARTIN: We work very
closely with the Department of
Education and the two great
gentlemen that manage the
theater works for the DoE, and
Peter Avery and Paul King work
very closely with us in helping
us get to the teachers.
We now, of course, building up
relationships with them, and
after each part of the season --
because we do a summer and a
winter program -- and after each
of those, we actually meet with
the teachers, say, okay, how can
we improve this?
We're very fortunate that our
members jumped right onboard,
and for those shows that are
appropriate for teenagers in
high school, almost all of them
participate in the program.
>> HASKINS: Now, I would be
remiss, Charlotte, if I didn't
ask you about making theater
more accessible to adults
because I get a lot of letters
from people about ticket prices.
And in fact, yesterday, I got a
letter from one of the Friends
of "Theater Talk," Robert Cohen,
and he said that he went
to buy a ticket for a big hit --
not "Hamilton" but another big
hit -- and he wanted a ticket
for July, and they said, "Well,
you can have a premium seat in
Row Q for $300."
And he wrote and said, "Why
must Row Q be a premium seat?"
Why is it that it has to be so
expensive even for the back of
the house?
>> ST. MARTIN: The truth is, on
any given day, you can get a
good seat to a great Broadway
show for under $100.
And the average ticket price
goes from $100 to $110.
And there are anywhere from 30
to 40 shows playing at any given
time.
So they can't all be $300.
>> HASKINS: But you
can't get that hit.
>> ST. MARTIN: You can't get
that hit right now, but every
show gets to a point that
they're available, and anybody
that tells me "Phantom" isn't as
great today as it was 30 years
ago when it opened doesn't know
how wrong they are.
We are a commercial business.
We're there to make a profit.
If we don't make a profit, there
won't be more "Hamiltons."
There won't be more
"Hello, Dollys!"
When the shows are hot, the
producers have to make hay when
the sun shines.
That said, any given day, you
can get tickets $59, $69,
$79, and this season to date,
which is almost over, we're at
88% of our seats occupied.
So a lot of people are getting a
well-priced ticket.
>> HASKINS: Now, you are a woman
running this gigantic...
I said you're the muscle -- you
really are -- running this
gigantic Broadway League, and
we're in the time of, you know,
women are reasserting their
respect issues, but you've been
a powerful force for quite some
time, but did you ever find that
there were any handicaps in you
being a woman in trying to
manage people and get people to
accommodate your will?
>> ST. MARTIN: 40 years ago,
absolutely.
Yes, I probably had to work
harder and longer to get that
opportunity, but I did get it.
I did prove myself, and
therefore, I got the
opportunity.
I would say since I've been on
Broadway, they have done nothing
but show me enormous respect
and actually were hopeful that I
could help get rid of any
perception that we don't treat
women well.
Can we treat women better?
Of course.
Can every business treat women
better?
Of course.
But I don't have that problem at
the Broadway League.
>> HASKINS: I'll be you're
tough.
Are you tough?
>> ST. MARTIN: I have strong
will...
>> HASKINS: Good.
>> ST. MARTIN: ...and am
persistent, which I think helps.
>> HASKINS: What would be your
biggest piece of advice for an
aspiring young
Charlotte St. Martin?
>> ST. MARTIN: The most
important thing a young person
moving into any field can do is
listen to what's going on around
them, ask the right questions,
and then not be afraid to take
any job and to volunteer for
many things.
That's certainly how I
personally got ahead.
I did my job and then I said,
"All right, what else can I do?
How else can I make a
difference?"
And it trained me in so many
areas that I knew nothing about,
which prepared me for that next
promotion.
And I think that's the single
best piece of advice for a young
person because so many of them,
they graduate, and they think
they should start off as my
boss.
>> HASKINS: Right.
[ Laughter ]
>> ST. MARTIN: You know, and I
respect that drive and energy,
but the reality is experience
does count.
>> HASKINS:
Charlotte St. Martin, thank you
so much for coming to
"Theater Talk."
We are looking forward to the
Tony Awards, and you will be on
the broadcast, I hope.
>> ST. MARTIN: Well, they
usually take a quick glimpse of
Heather and I.
We welcome the audience before
the broadcast begins,
which is the best part.
>> HASKINS: Very good.
All right.
So we'll see you around there in
Tony season.
>> ST. MARTIN: Thank you, and
thank you for keeping up our
fabulous industry in the eyes of
the world.
>> HASKINS: Thank you.
>> HALSTON: Thank you.
♪♪
>> HASKINS: Our thanks to the
Friends of "Theater Talk" for
their significant contribution
to this production.
>> ANNOUNCER: We welcome your
questions or comments for
"Theater Talk."
Thank you.
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