it is my privilege to be here this
evening with Jack Ma one of the great
entrepreneurs of our time of course the
founder of Alibaba and we have so many
things to talk about over the next half
an hour and of course we also want to
try to get to your questions as well
we're going to talk about Alibaba of
course but also China the Trump world
that we all live in globalization and
trade and and so many other issues but
first of all thank you I'm sort of my
owning us let me start with this which
is to say that you just spent some time
inside Trump Tower in and when to go
visit with Donald yeah our president
elect in the United States tell us about
that meeting what's very productive
meeting much better than I thought that
I expected what did you expect well I
heard a lot and watch like anybody i
watch all the news and heard a lot about
him so when I go inside us all hmm
anything that up but he's very sort of
open minded listened what I talk so I
think I'm a very happy bad results and
filed when he he said he offered so Jack
let me walk you down so i assume he's
very happy by the results we had can i
ask how does a meeting like that happen
do you call him did he call you well how
does this take place well that's that's
the question I'm asking myself
because some Sunday I got some requests
from people say Jack do you want meeting
the president-elect I say is that true
or not because I'm not ready for that
because I don't know what to talk about
and then few days later I got another
request I got a several requests and
then I saw one email which worth ran has
very sort of specific I thought I
thought about it I think yes maybe I
should go and have a talk and at least I
think present left on the Trump would be
happy to hear what I want to talk about
so I went and what did you tell him
about the small business talk about
agriculture products talk about the
trade between China and the USA we
special focus on Todd telling about how
can we bring this small business in
America sell them to China to age it
through our network which can create a
lot of jobs for them and you committed
to create what you say is we're going to
be 1 million jobs in the United States
yeah / unify five years yeah now that's
not a million jobs that Alibaba itself
but you're not hiring a million female
no we are all totally Alibaba employ put
together it's like a 45,000 people we
cannot hi one day I cannot imagine I can
manage one minute people
now explain to us how you think about
the us-china relationship given some of
the comments that Donald Trump has made
about China being a manipular enci
manipulated that did that come up during
your meeting well I think first in
America there's a freedom of speech
right so he can say whatever he wants
and I respect I understand but of course
i have my views we did not debate about
the china-us a trade or manipulation
within a debate with another we actually
agreed on something small business
developed in the Middle West America
helping the farmers their small business
there to exporting to China so we all
agree but something that we do not
discuss about the you know the American
did the job losing to China Mexico and
this can I share with you my ideas
please yeah first I think 30 years ago
when i justa graduate from universities
I heard America and a wonderful strategy
they also the manufactured job service
jobs they also manufactured to Mexico
and China also the service jobs to
Indian there's a book called the world
is flat Tom Friedman yeah a league of
the near time and I think it's a perfect
strategy you know that the American said
we just want to conclude the adjust want
to technology we just want to brand to
leave but the law and the jobs for the
world grace strategy and second is that
the american international companies
made millions and millions of dollars
from globalization the top 10 top 100
companies in America amazing I remember
when I graduate from the University I
try to buy a deeper the motorola beeper
cost to me two hundred fifty dollars my
pay at that time to ten dollars a month
as a teacher and the cost of making that
beeper is only eight dollars for a chip
so pastor 30 years IBM Cisco Microsoft
they made a ton of woman the money the
Prophet did made a much more than the
four largest banks in China put together
the moat china mobile phone china unicom
in or whatever you name it put together
still these multinational companies made
more money death so the market cap grow
more than 100 times in past of the years
but where the money go this is what I'm
a curious custom some business people I
always care about the balance of shit
where the money coming when money go
past 30 years the American had 13 wars
spanning fourteen point two trillion
dollars the money going there what if
there's been a part of them money on
building up the infrastructure helping
the white cause the divided colors and
blue colors no matter how strategy good
it is you're supposed to spend money on
your own people right only not everybody
can pass Harvard like me we may now
Chris education right we should spend
money on those people who are not a good
as schooling and the other money which I
curious about is that when i was young i
heard America's bad fold fold and Boeing
those big manufacturing companies last
10 20 years I heard about his Silicon
Valley and Wall Street the money go to
the wall street and what happened year
2008 the financial crisis wipe it out
nineteen point two trillion dollars usal
off then why put all of the white colors
and destroyed 34 million jobs globally
so what it's the money is not a wall
strip what if the money spent on a
Middle East Middle wealth of the United
States developing the industry there
that could be changed a lot so it's not
the other countries still jobs from you
guys it is your strategy okay but are
you do not distribute the money that the
mine and things in a proper way this is
what I and now we're having a backlash
and that backlash is a rebuke of
globalization and so much of the
conversation frankly that we have here
and that backlash is happening in the
United States but i will say president
she was here yesterday you had lunch
with him and he was quoting Abraham
Lincoln what did you make of that well i
would say that globalization is a great
stuff it's it's the USA's developer
countries to teach us how to do
globalization I remember 2002 or one
would people trying to join the WTO
everybody in China wasn't worried me I
was worried because what if all the
international products come to China
destroy our industry and we have lose a
job so convinced the China after 20
years then you guys hotel and say this
is a terrible thing I believe
globalization is good but globalization
need to be improved this is Donald Trump
president-elect want to solve it the
problems that globalization I think
should be inclusive globalization in the
past of 30 years the globalization was
controlled by 60,000 big companies a
hundred years ago globalization was
controlled by several kings and emperors
what if next to 30 years we can support
six million business doing this cross
book what if in next 30 years we can
help support 20-minute small business
can do business cross the ball so this
is something which I believe
globalization should be inclusive and do
you think that the words present she
will happen in reality which is to say
yeah that China has largely acted on its
own behalf for many many years and now
is effectively saying that the US needs
to continue acting on everybody else's
behalf yeah I think you know the world
to need some IOUs are being to such a
mr. Xie yesterday said it's a wonderful
time it's a best time or the worst time
the world need a new leadership
but the new leadership is about working
together this is what I understand we do
not necessarily need one specific leader
to teach us what to do what not to do
but the world had to partner together
this is what I think and I think I like
as a Chinese as a business people I like
I feel proud for what President as she
said yesterday as a business person I
want the world to share the prosperity
together for joining the force together
as a Chinese I'm happy about what he
committed yesterday he said you know he
speaks like us take the responsibility
of the second largest economy as the
China second largest economy he has to
take some responsibility it's the first
time I heard a chinese leader make
number commitment he said next ten years
we are going to import ate a US dollars
this if you live you make me feel
excited because China is transforming
from exporting to importing if there's a
concrete a number if we can fulfill it
this is going to be huge change to the
China and to the wall but I think that
it's easier today for China to be
interested in globalization because of
the benefits that accrue that can accrue
to China because you're continuing to
develop than it is for countries that
are quote unquote developed well first
the WTO rule is not designed by China
it's not night by China I will say
there's something that I want to change
the WTO is designed a lot louder rules
designed for big companies and popular
years and only big companies can do it
and China definitely benefit a lot from
opening I think Chinese shall learn one
thing that we grow in the past of the
years it's because we open to the world
it will continue to open our way not
fully American business that wants to
affect we go into business in China has
a very difficult time has to partner
effectively with a company that's there
already this is why I said China has the
problems to the world as
and China has deafness a lot of problems
China should open should have been more
confidence this is what I feel yesterday
after the confidence of mr. XI that he
is ready to open more to the child to
the world this is what I suggest that we
should solve the problem by business
community and fight negotiation WTO
China join w204 suit for 20 years of 70
years I have done the number but the
past years that I think we as a business
we as a country with the world we have
to review something and but not because
unbalanced the things we stop it you've
been calling for something called ewt p
yeah what is that this is what I would
talk about is that the WTO was great but
they mainly designed for developer
countries big companies there's no
opportunity for small business we want
to build up aw electronic world trade
platform to support young people small
business thanks through mobile phones
internet they can sell by across the
board and the other thing is that W is
is a very interesting organization when
you put the door hard round we put 200
government offices in a world room ask
them to agree on something it's
impossible III can never imagine that
they can agree on something together
business should be designed about
business people so we believe ewt p
should be something that the business
people sit down together agree on
something negotiate or something and get
endorsement from the government we
talked a little bit about Ali Baba and
the model itself because I think for
many in the West if you will they don't
necessarily understand it and to the
extent down I to Natalie that the extent
that i could try to compare it to amazon
which I know you think is an unfair
comparison one of the things that's so
fascinating to me is that amazon and
Jeff Bezos have pursued what might be
described as a very asset heavy business
model they're buying airplanes they want
only tires
supply chain from beginning to end and
Alibaba has effectively an asset like
business it is very much in terms of the
retail piece of this the opposite you
don't want to own the warehouses you
don't want to own the logistics
companies how do you think about that is
Jeff Bezos right or you right and is
there is there going to be a meeting in
the middle I hope both are right and
because the world can never have a one
model if the world has only one correct
a model there was too boring but we need
have all kinds of models and the people
who do the bottom should believe in the
models and I believe what I do right the
difference between amazon and us amazon
is more like an empire everything they
should control themselves buy and sell
and our philosophy is that we want a
bigger ecosystem our philosophy is to
empower others to sell empower others to
sit to service empower making sure the
other people are more powerful than us
making sure with our technology our
innovation our partners I was ten very
small business sellers they can compete
with Microsoft IBM our philosophy is
that we we think using Internet
technology we can make every company
become amazon remember one thing today
for ourselves our gme last year is more
than 550 billion u.s. dollars to hide
people deliver for us we need a 5
million people so how can we hide
five-minute people deliver things for us
to deliver the things we sold the only
way we do is empower the service company
largest companies making sure they are
efficient making sure that they make the
money and making sure that they can hire
more people without owning the whole
chain can you do it as effectively the
idea that you're having watching Amazon
being able to deliver things now within
hours literally we made a hundred twenty
five cities deliver within one day last
year in London ten years ago deliver one
thing from Beijing to house or takes by
the 80 days now you can deliver things
from a hung from Beijing to minimum
glory or some city within 12 hours it's
improving you can never expect these
things happen within 24 hours we have
patience so I think clean imagine that
we did the 11 11 singles day we sold 17
billion trillion billion dollars and by
delivering more than 600 million
packages within three days this is
happening and this is what we feel proud
of is not how much money we make is not
how powerful we are we think because of
the technology we can make the
technology very inclusive that every
small companies can use it this is my
dream because I start my first business
1992 in China as a small business being
ordered to borrow money 5,000 u.s.
dollars from bank took me three months
to acquire still fail so difficult to be
a small business today with the
technology we can empower them this is
something I wanted it one of the
critiques is you know and it continues
to linger around alibaba's the piracy
issue this is a night there's an IP
issue and it's issue all over China but
it you you take the brunt of a lot of it
now how much progress have you made in
your mind and how do you think about
some of the regulatory bodies and other
countries including the US that
continued to criticize Alibaba for this
issue first when we start do this
business at the business like this size
you have to take all the criticism you
have to listen what is right what is
wrong and the second is the e-commerce
when you put 10 minutes small business
empower them to sell we do not like
Amazon 5 we cannot even you buy when you
buy fifty five trillion dollars of 55
550 billion dollars you cannot check
every products so the model itself and
the e-commerce or the self may have a
lot of this frost
and third I would say in the past 17
years we are the leader of this empty
privacy this is the IP protect IP but
the second that we are internet
companies we do not have the law
enforcement we find this guy is selling
product cheaper you know fake products
we delete them we cannot arrest them but
we're a huge progress last year alone we
put 400 people into Jill's with delete a
370 million freak product listing on our
site I want to say we are the leaders
and we are using the big data to check
out who's buying who's manufacturing
who's selling what is that dress so now
I'm happy about the whole world
especially China all the government
organization start to realize the issues
so i would tell you a good thing is that
today when you go to those criminal
group which i call them criminals those
fake products manufacturers sellers you
praised the quality though of some of
these i would talk about it later right
those criminals that they can go
anywhere but not not top on t-mo because
using our data we trace where they are
who they are what's the address what
they now I will deliver this to the
police station and working with that the
rest the quality issues is something I
want to share with people it's not by
praising the fake products I want to say
that for so many years those branded
accompanies you have to be very careful
because the fake products their quality
improving is scary that is the
difference between us because we find
guys the thing that people said this is
fake and you have to find people you
have found a third-party institution to
check it as a fake or not we find
sometimes the quality is better and I
tell you another thing is that either
scary
there's a one brand company he said we
are selling fake products we check
everything it's nothing wrong so sir hmm
what is wrong we buy the parts from his
flagship and delivered to that this is a
fake you know the thing we buy shop buy
things from the flag shop of this brand
and deliver back it's the fake products
they say so it's a bit confusing this is
fighting against the fake products it's
the wall against the greeting human
greediness it's not easy you cannot have
finish it but you have to continue to
fight and i want to say we put two
thousand people 1 billion i'd be every
of fighting again that it can never
finish the role within two years but i'm
happy whether people criticize me
criticize the most important is that we
are happy about the progress we've made
but if people praised me so you know
when people's a jack you're wonderful i
know i'm not wonderful right all about
the great we are not great we are just a
17 year old company but when people say
you're doing nothing no we're doing lot
of things but you have to argue you have
to debate you do what you believe one of
the things you mentioned was using big
data on the piracy side but the other
thing that you're using a lot of that
big data to do is provide credit yeah
and effectively banking the unbanked and
what's so fascinating to me and i hope
you'll share it is we talked about the
sesame credit how how you are able to
use big data effectively to figure out
who deserves credit and who doesn't in a
marketplace where some of these people
had no credit history before ok well
before we do that we had a system could
teach computers to learn how to entice
fake products teach the computers learn
how to because we have a leap a lot of
people try to use all the ways to
cheating so we teach the computer how to
do that the cheating things so we've
been doing that for 10 years until now
there is called artificial intelligence
because we've been doing that we are a
data company eight years ago we said to
ourselves alibaba should not be an
e-commerce company we should be a data
company because we have the data from
consumers we have data from the the
manufacturer of datos from logistic
companies and transactions but we think
of how we can make it betta really
beneficiary to the society what China
need is that we have a lot of great
people all the small business they have
a very they're very credible but the
other we don't have a credit system for
that so how can we using a credit rating
system based on the data so we have to
giving everybody a Sesame a rating
system that is so powerful in the past
four years because every individual
every small business if they have been
using our services would give no rating
system so we're giving loans in the past
five years with giving five million
business loans the only about borrow
five thousand dollars three minutes we
can decide whether we should give you
money how much you want to give readings
it one second the money will be in your
account and zero people touch so we
called 310 and even today the sesame
rating system become people dating the
mother-in-law want to say hey you want
to date you with my daughter show me
your rating system of the sesame car so
it's so funny we go to the people want
to rent a car people want to rent a
bicycle they will say show me your
sesame cards good just if they do not
have paid back if they do not fulfill
the radiances are going to blow down and
they can never rent a house right this
is what we want to build up the system
that if you sell or buy fake products
the sets in the cars we're sure i'm
going to open up to questions but a
final one for me there's been a lot of
speculation that you're going to get
into the business of Hollywood your name
has appeared how a Volvo Group at the
beginning of a couple of big films
recently what is the ambition for
Alibaba in the entertainment world
on the beginning were like this several
years we every five years we have a
review for our strategy now our strategy
is always look at the 30 years and 10
years every strategic decisions we make
we have to ask one question the
disposition we make solve society
problem because we believe the biggest
social problem you solve the most
success where you are so if we do this
cannot solve any social problems we
don't do it second is this project is
going to be successful in 10 years if
it's going to be successful in 10 years
let's do it if it's going to be
successful in one year or one month
normal i say forget about it because why
you can be successful in one year or one
mouth so we all have to prepare and five
years ago we had a big debate about 10
years later 20 years what are the things
this china society the world leave want
so we say happiness and health 2h
strategy the happiness and health we
believe hollow you know the movie
industry bring people happy because
today nobody is happy rich people are
happy poor people not happier you know
at least when i watch movie after you're
happy but but so I think we should
partner with the Hollywood especially
like a lot of you know we have a
different way of living and in China the
movie we have a lot of heroes but China
movies heroes always dead the American
me movie here will never die
if all the heroes die who want to be the
hero so my movie I want to make the hero
live right so this is this is I think we
should learn a lot and it's only about
two years so we have another eight years
ago I want to make our company that it's
not ecommerce it's something that given
people inspirations given people because
I learn a lot for example I will see
that my favorite movie Forrest the gum
and on life stuff this is I learned and
that inspired me that is why when people
call me crazy stupid past the 70 years
you're crazier doing something that will
work you're stupid how can do that model
imogen this model eat me this model why
add about this model I told myself force
the gum set go ahead that would care
about what the other people and the
other thing Forrest Gump said nobody
make money out of the catching whales
people make money by catching shrimps so
we serve small business or not jack ma
we should probably end it there is it
going to run out of time but I thank you
thank you so much for the conversation I
promise we sleep in a question or two
when we literally have two minutes and
they're going to get into upset with me
if you have a question of and we're
going to got beg you to do it within
literally you know a second to go for it
right there
well I don't think I think China and the
US should never have a trade war will
never have a trade war and I think we
should giving president-elect on it from
some time and he's open-minded he's
listening and I think the world is so
easy to launch a wall but it's so
difficult almost impossible sometimes to
terminate a wall the Iraq war
Afghanistan war is that finished no
trade war I believe one thing when trade
stops the world starts trade is
something that people start to
communicate train is something people
exchange culture and valley and I will
be happy if China USA agree on something
and Alibaba did this business model
destroyed I would destroy allapattah
model by stopping the world fitting
because how can you imagine the first
largest economy of the world second
largest economy of the world have a
tradable it's going to be a disaster for
two countries and for the world if we
can anybody can do something to stop it
do anything to stop it did you have a
reaction to trump and the situation with
taiwan and how he's thinking about that
well tile art I think this is this is
not that something about government this
is not something of a business is
something about the people if the tower
is suit is the population if you do tie
wire is like against 1.4 billion people
so this is another issue so we're
talking about trade we're not talking
about Taiwan very politic let's take one
final question if we can I think we can
steal one we're in yes sir right there
I'm not polishes I try to select me a
practiced or how do you afford you are
not my thing up these peoples live on
you are not dictating the whole you know
credit kingdom on earth the system
because now you are the decision makers
you are other who makers okay first I'm
not sure people say oh this is unscented
versatile world
every day's versatile the only certain
day was yesterday I'm not sure about
that in the future I think I would
dictate I will be stupid that's why I
should retire early when I'm young that
is why I have a lot of things that the
dream I want to do I wander throughout
the day I want to be a teacher I want to
go back to school I want to do the
environment and the world is so
wonderful why should be the CEO of
Alibaba all the time I'm coming to this
world not to work I want to come to this
or to enjoy my life I don't want to die
in my office i'm going to die on the
beaches it's a wonderful message Jack Ma
thank you for the Congress well I saw
what a lot getting crazy please i just
want to give my last a device to any
people here that Ava government should
pay attention to in the next 30 years a
critical for the world every level tech
tech toys rebels takes about 50 years
the first 20 years technology company
next three years the implication of the
technology focused on next 30 years the
first 20 years eBay Amazon Facebook
alibaba google good the most important
is that make the technology inclusive
make the world change visit 30 years
next pay attention to those people who
are 30 years old because those are
international generation internet
generation they will change the world
they are the beauty of the world third
that let's pay attention to the company
who else who have feared that 30
employees so 30 years and 30 years old
and 13 projects that would can make the
world much better Jack Ma thank you very
very much thank you thank you thank you
okay thank you
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