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- So I began teaching motor development
having never had a course on motor development
and having taken many courses in child development
in which, in most of the textbooks at the time,
had these long lists of things of
three-year-olds will do these things,
four-year-olds will do these things.
And of course, the students that you're
teaching are trying to figure out
whether you have to memorize that list.
So it was always a standard question in class,
do I have to know that list in the book
that shows all the things a four-year-old can do?
And so I got relatively frustrated with these
lists of things that characterize children's
motor behavior.
So that was the first thing.
The second thing is, of course,
was there was a lot in the literature about
how to think about development
and how to get the idea of
the characteristics of something that is developmental.
And so I read a paper once by a
very famous development psychologist by the name of
Jerome Bruner.
This was when I was in graduate school.
And Bruner made an allusion that
developmental process, or development, was much like
climbing a mountain.
And I really liked this idea. I thought, okay yeah
of course you have some place where you're going,
the what we call the teleological goal.
and we have this idea that
there's a…
where you start walking up the mountain
and sort of go up, if you think about mountain climbers
in Kilimanjaro, or something, they talk about
the base camp.
And then they get up the mountain to another
level of the mountain climbing.
And so, each one is sort of a place that sort of,
stop-off place.
So you have this kind of idea of periods, or stages
that you're climbing.
So all that seemed to sort of fit.
And, quite frankly, I can't remember the day I decided
to say in class, "Motor development is like climbing
a mountain."
I always say, that we're talking about the development
of motor skills.
I don't think we're just talking about
any motor behavior,
but that the whole idea is to understand
the development of skillful motor behavior.
And so the idea of a mountain gives you a very good
conceptualization of that, that is you're
going to some end, that is to the top of the mountain.
The idea of the mountain range
came actually from talking with my graduate students.
Who, we started talking about, well this looks like
it's only one thing, wonder if I
don't go up the mountain, on these fundamental skills.
I wonder if I do piano playing,
or I wonder if I am a skilled speaker
of multiple languages, or something.
How do you characterize that? And in conversations
with my students, my graduate students, who came
up with this idea that
it's a mountain range,
it isn't just like one Kilimanjaro, but actually many
mountains that you climb.
Some of us never get up any of them, like I
can't say that I ever got up the gymnastics mountain.
But, some other people would say they never got up
the tennis mountain, or something like that.
There's change over time, like learning a motor skill
or adapting your motor skill to an environmental change
is of course, fundamental to everything we do.
But when you look at the mountain, you see that
it isn't just like two or three steps.
Which would be like adaptation to like get over
a stone, or to go up this little path
to go to that little place
in your life.
But the mountain really gives you the impression
that this is a big and long process.
So it's not like just going down the street.
Which might be considered motor learning, if you would.
Or just going up 500 feet
up the mountain.
It's the whole mountain.
And so therefore, the first thing you sort of have
to appreciate is that the mountain speaks to you
just straightforwardly, this is a big deal.
This is a long process.
It's a lifetime.
And, that's
probably it.
The other part is that it's cumulative.
So you have to go up one base camp
leads to the next base camp
which leads to the next
which is the reflexive period
leads to the pre-adapted, and so on.
Each of these is built upon the next one.
It's sequential.
Like you can't kind of, well you can kind of
go up and down it, but there's a natural
sort of sequence to the order.
And of course, it's the expression teleological—
one of my students' favorites words—
but meaning that there is some end state
and that's, of course, the top of the mountain.
So I think it fits very nicely with that developmental
perspective.
First you have to say, okay,
motor development is like climbing this mountain.
So what does that mean?
Well, I have to do something, I have to be an actor.
I have to be the person who does the climbing.
So that's an action, that's a process.
And then there's the, how far did I get?
Which is the product.
So I could say, okay, how did I get there?
And then, how far did I get?
That would be like a period, so now I'm gonna
fundamental motor patterns period.
Or now I'm in the context specific period,
or something like that.
That's where I got, but how did I get there?
Then of course, give you all these little ways
to tell the story.
So the story is, we're going to try to climb
up the mountain.
So when climbing up the mountain
you have to have this action, okay,
that's a process, that's what you're doing.
And then you have, where did you get, the product?
The other thing though, this is the combination
with dynamical systems, and that is that
you have the constraints.
So, I have what face of the mountain was I born
on kind of thing?
So you could say, well, I got the
north face of the mountain to climb up.
Or I got to a certain period, and all of a sudden
I encountered some very strong constraints
as I tried to learn, in my case, gymnastics
or something like that.
That's, I think of that is like a mountain wall
that I had to go up.
The other thing is, of course, how
about me, the person.
Where is my fitness level?
So one of the things that makes it
very difficult for people to climb mountains
is that when the air changes,
if you think about like the highest mountains
in the world, these become very difficult
to negotiate at the very top
because the air is so thin.
Well, the same is true about skillfulness.
It's very hard, at the very top,
at the very peak of your motor performance.
It's hard work at that point.
You can see children who are
very young, well before 10 or 11 years of age,
be very skillful at something,
but, not in all
activities.
If there's a heavy cognitive component
such as strategies,
then I think you'll see that it takes until
they're much older before they can attain skillfulness.
But you take something like swimming
or gymnastics, I mean, how many of us have seen
some little five-year-old do back flip-flops
and you're like, "Whoa, they can do these gymnastics tricks."
But, I'm not saying that doesn't take cognition
to be a gymnast, but
there's no strategy to match your back flip-flops
to somebody else's back flip-flop.
So you can do your summersaults without having to
play a zone defense, such as in basketball.
So in basketball, you can become better and better
but it requires you to understand
more very technical levels of the game rules
and technical
levels of defense and offense strategies.
And as that ramps up, so if you could think of this
as a continuum that, here's how much
there is in terms of cognitive demand in a task
and here's the level of co-ordination needed,
well, if this, if these go together, then it would
you could be there much earlier in your skillfulness.
Like, eating food. I mean, in children
that doesn't require a lot of cognition.
Children are able to
use chopsticks very skillfully,
for example, at maybe six or seven years of age.
You don't have to wait until they're 12 years old
or something like that.
Whereas if we were talking about playing
a very complicated sports
behavior,
I'll just go back to basketball.
It may take a long time.
The other thing you have to remember is that some
of our sports are not scaled
to the child.
So you'll never be really fast in swimming
if you're always gonna do 50 meters.
And your little tiny body
and you have smaller muscles.
But if we were to make the meter, if we made the pool
the same sort of scale to their heights
and their capabilities
they might be very fast.
If you, and the best example that comes to mind is
basketball, where the net
is scaled to adults, and is not placed at a level
that's scaled to the child's height.
So I don't think
I don't think we should be thinking that it's age
it's roughly age-related, but it's really the
capabilities of the individual.
And that those capabilities are
kind of mapped pretty closely to the child's
age, cognition being the example.
But a father or a mother could
teach a child the strategies
and they could work on them
and they could get very good at those strategies.
They could become very skillful at some of the
these activities that have a cognitive load
that's higher than the motoric load.
If somebody worked on this.
Well if you do the calculations for using
Erikson's idea that it has to be
10,000 hours.
If you do the math on that
it's about 10 years.
And I always say, it's not surprising
that your insurance changes
at around 25 years of age
because it probably maps pretty well to
the number of hours that you've done driving your car.
Probably a better measure of giving you
your insurance rates would be to have
a meter on how many times,
how many hours you've driven a car
so that some people could have
reduced rates sooner, because they drive a lot.
And some people would wait 'til they were 30
because they don't drive a car very often.
I mean I think, I don't think we really scale that
to the number of hours, but you could certainly
do that in the same way that they
like a pedometer, it could just track how often you do.
They do that with airplane pilots.
In fact, that's a good example.
Airplane pilots get certain degrees of their
pilot license based on how many hours that they
clock as a pilot.
You could do the same thing with….
So it's easier to monitor an airplane because
it goes up in the air, and so on
as opposed to a car.
But you could easily put this into play
if we were serious about it.
Oh yeah, can we get stuck on a mountain, of course.
I'm stuck on gymnastics. (laughs)
And gymnasts generally are stuck on
not playing racquetball. (laughs)
Ball skills.
Yes.
Obviously your
family, friends,
culture, school environment all
scaffold what you end up doing.
And of course, if you're not good at something
then you kind of look for something
that you might be better at.
Millions of children participate in
youth sport leagues
in America.
For the first, from about eight to 10 years of age.
And then, they just
kind of stop, many of them
because they're not picked to be on the teams
or they're not good enough.
So what you have, this is another metaphor
that comes to, you know, that metaphor for the mountain.
Is the mountain is like a pyramid, or a triangle.
And you have
at the beginning everybody has a reflexive
behavior, everybody has
pre-adaptive behaviors.
We all go through this fundamental motor skill.
But this sort of narrowing also suggests
how many people get there too.
So, that skillfulness at one level
at least if we took the skillfulness mountain
for tennis, not very many people get there.
But if we took the skillfulness mountain for speaking
maybe it would be a very broad plateau at the top
there would be lots of people at that level.
So yeah, you can definitely get stuck on the mountain.
That's really about the constraints that
play into your life.
And your own interests and motivation
but those are really, your interests and motivation
are really
diminished or enhanced by your friends and family.
Well the proficiency barrier's a very good
concept given to us by Vern Seyfeld.
In contemporary terms we call this the glass ceiling.
(laughs)
In motor skills, it's
there's a certain
accumulated ignorance that can happen.
So you accumulate knowledge
so you get better and better and better.
And then you get to a certain point that
if you have not
if you've not worked out the patterns of coordination
for some behaviors, then it's gonna be a major
rate limiter to you being able to become proficient
at the next level.
And the best example of this, that I always give
and it's sexist, I'm sorry,
is what we call the sort of
throwing pattern, that is epitomized by
inventory throwers, and often sometimes called
the little girl's throw.
If I weren't sitting in this chair I would do this
pattern of action, which is the stepping with
the right foot, and throwing with the right foot.
This is just an inventor pattern.
It's unfortunate that it's been characterized as a
girl's throw.
But that just means that girls didn't throw balls
as much as boys.
It's not genetically wired into anybody.
Everyone throws like that at some point in their life.
But if that's where you're stuck in your fundamental
pattern of behavior.
If that's the pattern that you have
that is, you step with your right foot
and you throw with your right foot instead of having
the contralateral stepping,
and the good trunk action.
So if your trunk action is mostly
forward and back, and not pelvis
and then shoulder go in rotation.
If you haven't worked that out, when you go to tennis
you can't do a tennis serve very well.
You can't strike, do a good striking behavior in batting.
And so that
not mastering those patterns of coordination
are gonna rate limit your ability to get higher.
Sure, you can play tennis.
But you're not gonna play tennis at a level
that's gonna really rank you any higher
than sort of an advanced beginner.
You can become kind of very good at some level
but your tennis serve is always gonna be
hampered by that.
And your golf swing is gonna be hampered by those
patterns of coordination.
Even more fundamental than that is that
one of the things that you really appreciate
if you become a physical therapist
and people in physical education, may not appreciate
as much, and that is the role of posture.
And its control in the fundamental patterns
of coordination.
That is your ability to manage your head
and your trunk and your arms
over top of your legs while you're doing
all of these other behaviors.
And that's also really managed and worked out
in the fundamental patterns period.
Now you want to go on
to get to another level
and you're just gonna keep banging into
this sort of glass ceiling.
Because you don't have the patterns
of coordination worked at this level
that will allow you easily to go to the next level.
So, it's a good concept really.
You can do workarounds but it's not
it's not sweet.
You need to go back actually and get those
fundamental patterns worked out.
How would an atypical person climb the mountain?
Atypically. (laughs)
An atypical person would
comes with different set of constraints.
And when you come with a different set of constraints
it will
create a new
challenge for you.
The mountain is— the environment will stay the same.
The task may stay the same in the sense that
you want to get someplace.
But, the way in which you achieve this
is gonna be driven by your
individual organism constraints.
So, let's just take the
person who has Cerebral Palsy.
And does a lot of toe walking.
It's not that they, first of all, they'll walk later.
And they might have some spasticity in their hands.
So the behaviors that they have
need to be compensated, they need to
change the from what we see as typical behaviors
into behaviors that work for their biological
or their organism constraints.
And that's what physical therapists and occupational
therapists do every day is work within the
individual's structural constraints, functional constraints
to try to allow them to achieve the task in a different way.
So, can they get to skillful?
Well, you know, depends on I suppose what it is.
Children who have Down Syndrome, for example,
become skillful at things that don't require
a heavy cognitive load.
But, we have the Special Olympics, which is
is a celebration
of skillful behavior with
strong constraints that are different than
everybody else has.
So I think the Special Olympics celebrates the fact
that there are lots of ways to achieve
successful motor behavior.
And a measure of skillfulness within those constraints.
So I guess I'd say, yeah, they're not gonna be
on the US Olympic team.
But we have the example of Pistorius, I think his
name is, was the man who had the amputated leg
and had a prosthetic.
And, he had worked out a running pattern with his
spring prosthetic.
And then the question became
is that legitimate?
Can he compete against people who don't
have that springy leg?
So, I don't know.
(laughs)
I don't know that I have
I guess I would have to say
people would have to give me some feedback as they use it.
There's a lot that's not in the paper
or either of the two papers.
That's sort of just the way I've used it myself.
Other people, the nice thing about publishing something is
people that can read it and take it
for their own use, and see how they would
use it, or not use it, or extend upon it.
I would hope that
there'd be like a "Mountain Two" paper that would come out
with people commenting on how it works
and how it doesn't work.
Where they need to think about it.
Remember, it's only a model, it's not a theory.
And a model is only useful.
And if it's not useful, get another model.
If this model doesn't work for you
in the way you conceptualize motor development
then get another model.
So, models are really just a concrete something.
Concrete form
of something you're trying to understand
that's an abstract concept.
So motor development is, what is that?
It's an abstract idea at one level.
And so the mountain, and the classes, like the skills
and you have all this stuff.
So the mountain you just kind of keep
coming back to it and saying,
well where are we on the mountain?
And, have we gotten from the fundamental period
up to the contact specific period?
Have we got past that base camp, where are we?
And if that works for you, that's great.
If it doesn't, get another model. (laughs)
I look forward to that.
Developing skillfulness is a
is a big process, a long process,
a high process.
It doesn't get done in a day.
You can't climb a mountain in a day.
Not the lifetime model, mountain.
So,
besides all the other stuff I've just said I'd say
look at the mountain and go, can I get that done in a day?
No.
Does it take me 10,000 hours?
I don't know about that, or 10 years.
Hopefully it doesn't take you 10 years to climb a mountain.
But, if you think of it as a mountain range
and you say, I have to climb a lot of mountains.
It's not just the mountain for tennis,
or the mountain for
driving your car, or something.
It's all the mountains that I have to climb.
Then, in fact— or the peaks, mountain peaks—
then in fact, you can see even more clearly that
it's a
lifetime process.
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